Why They Torture (video)

Last Saturday the weekly demonstrations for and against the wars in West Chester, PA were joined by some special visitors. One was an activist I only know as Barbara advocating the closure of the Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp in Cuba. This is a US military facility that has been the subject of much controversy. Terror suspects are kept there and many are tortured.

The other visitor was local conservative talk show host, and advocate of torture, Dom Giordano. He spent most of his time with the pro war demonstrators though he did come across the street to talk to us peaceful people a couple of times. The video below records two of his interviews. He engages Barbara in a lively debate on the subject of torture and Guantanamo. She handles Giordano's arguments extremely well:


In all of the debate about torture the real reasons for it are sometimes missed. Please read the explanation this author gave for it. The article below was originally published at OpEdNews.com on April 30, 2008:

Why They Torture

There's been much debate for the last several years about the US government and it's allies use of torture. The articles are too numerous to mention and there's been at least one movie, Rendition.

The arguments pro torture generally revolve around gathering intelligence. I'd like to suggest that this is largely false. Extracting information from people is just the excuse used to cover the real reasons for torturing. There are basically two.

The first is to break enemy leaders and potential leaders. Leave them in such a broken state of mind that they can't effectively organize opposition to the US government. This is bad enough, but it begs the question of who's being tortured? Going after potential leaders inevitably means that many innocents will be hauled in.

The second reason for torturing is intimidation. Trying to strike fear in those who would oppose the US government. Submit or this could happen to you.

History will judge the US as harshly as it has the Roman Empire, which we have equaled if not surpassed. For all the Roman's technical and scientific achievements they are most remembered for their brutality. Sadly, so it will be for the US. This is what people will see of us one thousand years from now. This is the monster that the quest for empire has turned the republic into.

In advocating the adoption of the Declaration of independence, Richard Henry Lee said, "Why then, sir, why do we longer delay? Why still deliberate? Let this happy day give birth to an American republic. Let her arise, not to devastate and to conquer, but to reestablish the reign of peace and of law." How far we have strayed from the ideals of the Founders.

"They’re Democrats here!"

"They’re Democrats here!". That’s what a man said when he saw me standing on the anti war side of the street. This was last Saturday in West Chester, PA where there are pro war and anti war factions demonstrating opposite each other each weekend. What got him started was seeing me holding up my Gadsden flag and a sign that reads "End the Fed - End the Wars" *:

(This picture is actually from a previous Saturday not the one this article is about.)

We had a pleasant conversation during which he said that I was on the wrong side of the street. This seemed like a very strange thing for him to say since I was with the people advocating peace and that is my stance as my sign makes clear. He explained that I was standing with Democrats that have insulted the troops and hate America. When I said that I stand here representing only my own libertarian views this man went on to say that he too was a libertarian and also a Ron Paul supporter. Continuing he claimed that he stands with the other side not supporting the war but supporting the troops and the country. That is how most on his side of the street feel, he added, though he did admit that some were neocons (his word).

During the whole conversation I kept feeling that this man was terribly confused. One cannot support the troops without supporting their mission. One cannot stand for their mission, imperial wars, while standing for the republic of the Founders (as one does by supporting Ron Paul).  Not to mention, I have to assume, that he thinks the Republicans are the good guys and the Democrats evil. (For the record, I think both parties are corrupt and evil.)

At this point it is worth looking at a picture of the pro war crowd:

(This picture is also from a previous Saturday not the one this article is about.)

In the picture we see many signs advocating victory also thanks to and support for the troops and their mission. None about liberty or bringing the troops home. There is a predominance of American flags too.

This brings to mind the warning by President John Quincy Adams from way back in 1821. On the 4th of July that year he gave a speech concerning the issue of whether or not the United States should support the Greeks in their bid for independence from the Turks. The she he refers to is the United States:

Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been unfurled, there will her  heart, her benedictions, and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own...

The reason why the United States should not go abroad is made clear:

She well knows that, by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself, beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy and ambition, which assume the color and usurp the standard of freedom.

President Adams went on to explain why this is a problem:

The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force. The frontlets upon her brows would no longer beam with the ineffable splendor of freedom and independence; but in its stead would soon be substituted an imperial diadem, flashing in false and tarnished luster the murky radiance of dominion and power.

After speaking to that man on Saturday and reflecting on the pictures from the previous demonstrations two parts of President Adam’s speech really stand out. The first is, "…wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy and ambition, which assume the color and usurp the standard of freedom." This, sadly, is an apt description of the wars the United States is now fighting and how the government propagandizes about them.

The second is a part of the speech not shared above that very accurately describes the United States today, "She might become the dictatress of the world; she would no longer be the ruler of her own spirit." We will only find our spirit, the spirit of liberty, when we put fear aside, stop being an empire, and end the wars.

* The Fed is the Federal Reserve System, the American central bank.

Supporting The Troops Or Supporting Israel?

What looked like it would be just another Saturday protesting the war in West Chester, PA turned up something different this time. The alleged American patriots, who are always across the street from our peace vigil, had another country's flag with them, namely Israel's:

At least they're being honest about who benefits from the wars the troops are fighting and dying in!

The pro war side seems to have forgotten about liberty. Not one of their signs mentions it and certainly Israel is no shining example of it. They're all about victory and supporting the government, not a view the Founders would have shared:

Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes. And armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended. Its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war...and in the degeneracy of manners and morals, engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.

--James Madison, April 20, 1795 (Works. Vol. 4, Pp. 491-2)

To the pro war side I can only say, heed the wisdom of the Founders and make freedom your goal. That way peace, liberty, and security will ours.

Below are some pictures from the peaceful side of the street: